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More Goenka Vipassana Course thoughts and other information
I went to a Vipassana course in Aug 2006. I left before the course was over. I wrote a blog post fairly soon after that on the experience: Experience from attending Vipassana Course by S.N Goenka (4 days out of 10): Updated
Here is my current view on it and some other information.
Vipassana Course as taught by S. N Goenka is not for me. Why
- Mismatch of general philosophy and outlook
- There are enough of aches and pain in life on it’s own
I do not believe in the most common refrain that more one does or achieves (Money, Career, etc) in the world, the more one is accumulating bad karma. This is typical of many Buddhist and Hinduism philosophy and also of Vipassana.
My current method seems to be a mix of Yoga (Moral Conduct, Asanas, Meditation as per Yoga Sutras by Patanjali), Law of Attraction\Intention manifestation, though I keep checking what my goals are and updating paths\methods accordingly (Ideas to think consciously about your spiritual goals and evaluating spiritual paths.)
In my opinion, in a Vipassana course, pain (in addition to diet detox, less sleep, minimal or no caffeine, deprivation of normal activities and stimuli, etc) is used to break down mental barriers and defenses to self exploration.
I would rather not go through acute pain and potential of injury for my spiritual path. This is more relevant being a computer programmer my body gets repetitive stress on a daily basis. and being in my 30s.
I will, in future seek courses\retreats which include Yoga Asanas to balance Sitting Meditation. Unless Yoga continues to help me in which case I might consider reapplying to a Goenka Vipassana course.
Vipassana Course as taught by S. N Goenka why it might be for you.
- It is one of the non-controversial spiritual path and it is free.
- You do not have acute pains or even better have a young body.
- You have difficultly starting some spiritual practice on your own.
At the core, it is kind of straight forward. You sit and meditate lots of hours for lots of days, insight happens.
It is free, donations are welcome at the end of the course. This compares well againsts the typical $100 per day at the other Ashrams such Sivaananda or Haridass ones.
I personally know or saw 55+ year old people doing the course and of many young ones being in utter pain. I believe the course is better handled if you do not have acute pains or even better have a young and healthy body.
A retreat, any retreat is a good way to get a boost, a jump start and if the general Buddhist philosophy appeals to you, give a try.
Few other things
- Retreats or meditation break\vacation are useful
- If I ever get the temptation to get tough and try it out, I will remember to sit at home for 2 days or I might just try something else equally tougher like climb Mt. Rainier.
- I found a disturbing trend is that some educational institutes (For example, MBA HR students at SCM HRD, Symbiosis Centre for Management and Human Resource Development in Pune, India) are forcing their students to take the Vipassana course.
- Vipassana course did and still does has that feel of being able to provide a way to go to the other side (Spiritual, More knowledge, etc) and make quicker progress, it is in sheer hours, equivalent of many months of regular meditation.
- Do consider it when you are serious about a spiritual path. As I wrote earlier in Ideas to think consciously about your spiritual goals and evaluating spiritual paths, “Do not go knocking on doors you do not want opened or want to go through”.
They revitalize one’s path, resulting in progress and highlighting the benefits of a spiritual practice if one has been drifting.
Nipun wrote about such a group in Vipassana Day 2: Dharma Works. Excerpt: “Right then, the director of the college calls just as a routine check-up. He is furious to learn of the plans of these 17 students (to leave early); he blatantly informs them that they will be expelled from college if they return.” and “if they get expelled, not only will they lose their valuable admission here but they won’t be allowed to enter another business school elsewhere.”, though they do not agree with it “And everyone at the meditation center here is in full agreement that such a scenario should never ever happen again. Fear simply can’t be the motivation for meditation.”
On what to expect at a Vipasana Center and what to take
- Keep the items to take at a bare minimum, the place is rustic. You will not get a drawer or cupboard, so be ready to use your luggage bag as your cupboard.
- The beds are bunk beds with one of top accessible using a ladder.
- The toilets and bathrooms are rustic but more or less clean. The waterless ones in NorthWest Vipassana Center in Onalaska smelt pretty bad most of the time.
- Carry
- a water bottle and a mug, it will save you trips.
- a meditation cushion, though they do have some and provide a thin one for all.
- a light shawl\throw for the temperature change.
- Consumables like Soap, ToothPaste, Sleeping bag, etc
- The food is excellent, it is modern vegetarian with lots of whole grains, vegetables, etc.
Last updated: 2nd June 2007.
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Hi,
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You can visit our blog if you have time: www.vijnana.wordpress.com
Mariola and Jonathan
Comment by Rasasthali Dasi — May 28, 2007 @ 5:18 amIn reply to your your views on bad karma and then some…. As I understand it from Goenka`s techings whenever
a person reacts to anything with either craving or advershion(which we do constantly both
consciously and sub-consciously even when we are asleep) they react physicly at the same
time. These reactions are called sankharas and can be detected as physical sensations through
out the body. In order to be imoral a person must first generate negativity, and that negativity
causes a reaction, a sankhara, which causes a sensation. So we react to present situations generating
sankaras. And we react to past sankharas that come to the surface generating more sankharas.
so we are a slave to our own habbit patterns. By learning to observe these sensations objectivly
without reacting with craving or adversion to them the sankhara gets eradicated. In order to get
to the stage where the mind is calm enough to be able to deal with all this first you must get
past the turbulance of your own mind and that for many people is the hardest part. With in
the first few days all sorts of unpleasentness can surface as the mind is genlty encourage(NOT FORCED)
to stay focused. The thing is not to add to it and soon enough it disapates and on the fourth
day Vipassana can be practiced properly. To be able to observe these sansations takes alot
of patience and persistance and relaxed effort.Some people leave when they encounter
difficulties and are not able to be patient enough to wait for these difficulties
to pass and leave the course early when they have probed the mind deeply and are aggitated and
full of disharmony. They do not experience the technique. So it is
fully understood that they come away not believing it has any value. If Vipassana is not your experience why
should you believe it has any value? I have over come 15 years of drug abuse, depression and violent out bursts.
Every day now is happier than yesterday which is good for me and all who come into contact with me.
I proberbly would be dead by now if I have not been taught this technique. Not dramatic just the truth.
May your path be full of happiness
Comment by paul — May 31, 2007 @ 4:03 amPaul
Hi Amit,
Comment by Sue — June 22, 2007 @ 3:46 amI have just completed my first 10 day Vipassana course and came across your web
site whilst searching for thoughts from other people who are on a similar journey. . I felt so sad when I read your site. Not just for you, but also for the other people who might read it and change their mind about undertaking a course.
It seems hard to judge an experience when you attended for less than half of it. Yes, there is pain. Unbelievable, intense pain - physical, mental and emotional, but there is also so much more. It wasn’t until the last day or two of the course that I had any understanding of what I had been through and, a week after returning to daily life, I am only just beginning to comprehend how profoundly I have changed. It is not the sensation of pain that is hurtful, it is how we perceive it and how we react to it. I know that sounds more than a little weird, but through vipassana this is not just realised, but also experienced. There is no one correct path. Vipassana is no for everyone. It may well not be right for you but please don’t judge it when you didn’t complete the journey. It has certainly made me a better person to be sharing this planet with!
If anyone is reading this website whilst trying to decide whether to commit to a course the only advice I can give you is not to accept anyone elses experience (including mine) as evidence about what to expect. Your experience will be unique and it is only through experiencin it that you can understand it.
Be happy, be peaceful
Sue
Sue,
That is one way, do not find out more, just experience (jump into) it.
I believe it is worth reading more, understanding other’s opinions and especially experiences and then deciding. That is how one avoids any negative influences such as cults or just wasted time.
However, your comment is there for others to use in decision.
Finally, glad somebody acknowledged the pain one is subjected to in the Vipassana course, it has been the elephant in the room.
Regards
Comment by Amit D. Chaudhary — June 22, 2007 @ 1:50 pmAmit
Theravada Buddhism Vipassana has probably saved my life from drug-abuse, divorce and maybe worse…
But “Vipassana as taught by S.N. Goenka” is definitely not my path, my conclusion after several retreats…
The main reason for me being me that his assistant teachers I met (outside India) don’t seem to be strong and qualified enough to handle large groups of meditators “sitting on a bomb”.
This just to say that there are several kinds of vipassana traditions within Theravada Buddhism, which people in India and in the West tend not to be informed of.
Vipassana is also present in other Buddhist traditions BTW.
May all beings find whatever path takes them to liberation
Comment by Anattta — June 23, 2007 @ 3:48 amrespected seekers of truth,
please accept my regards and greetings.
all of us are free to have our own opinions and act as we wish to do - in fact, this is what we do our whole life! “I like this - I want more - this should go on and on”, “I do not like this - should end now!”
I have personally experienced many 10 day vipassana retreats and have completed one 30 day long course as well. I have spent 10 years researching many aspects of this timeless science.
all I can say is - please do not be guided / misguided by any individual’s opinion. opinions vary. even for the same person - opinions change over time. people change. seasons change. situations change. opinions also change!
buddha said that you are your own master - take refuge in yourself - take refuge in truth - take refuge in your own experience - do not take refuge in anything else. in essence, this is what vipassana teaches.
please, by all means, give a FAIR trial to this wonderful science and art of living. please by all means, welcome happiness and peace in your life.
the journey is long or short / a little painful in the beginning or painless from the very beginning etc. etc. for different people but, those who stay on - do discover happiness and peace WITHIN themselves. it is not the buddha or goenka or the center that gives peace - we discover peace within ourselves.
I have respect for all religions and different spiritual paths and have read/researched/practiced them for years - in the end, I have to admit that vipassana is the real thing. it is the crux / the very essence of ALL meaningful and useful teachings. whether you label it as “vipassana” or “pragya” or “satipatthana” or “dhamma” or “dharma” or “rtambhara pragya” or “sthitpragya” or “applied gita” or “applied upanishads” or “applied bible” or “samta” or “art of living” or “insight” or “experiential wisdom” or “art of looking within - living and dying from moment to moment” or “science of mind-matter” or “mere awareness, bare awareness” or “observation” or “effortless observation -choiceless observation” or “art of living from moment-to-moment” or “living like a dew drop on a lotus leaf - all there yet, detached” or
“the art of learning how to let go…” or “the science of mind purification” or “highest form of self-psychotherapy that has nothing to do with any organized religion or dogma or cult or guru-dom” or NOTHING… does not matter! labels do not matter - what you experience, what you benefit, what you get - is what matters.
by all means, stick to it - don’t leave it - the rewards will be many. from my own experience - I can say that.
Vipassana is a universal, scientific method towards purifying the mind of deep rooted complexes. it has nothing that is “brain washing” or “cult” or “person worship”. I have verified this from my own and others experience over last 10 years.
vipassana helps all kinds of people - top CEO’s and business executives, prisoners, criminals and drug addicts, school children, physically healthy as well as sick people, mental patients, politicians, religious leaders, householders as well as monks, young as well as old… the vipassana students come from all strata of the society. vipassana helps all.
more details at:
www.dhamma.org
www.vri.dhamma.org
www.prison.dhamma.org
www.executive.dhamma.org
www.events.dhamma.org
“Peace in the world cannot be achieved unless there is peace within
Comment by dr manish agarwala — August 9, 2007 @ 11:40 amindividuals.” - S.N. Goenka
Hi Amit,
I happened on your blog and read your experience with Vipassana with interest. I have been practicing Vipassana for many years now, and in my experience, it has benefited me greatly. Yes, it’s not for everyone, so your 4-day experience with it is your truth.
As a rational person, it’s fair to get an idea as to what it is all about before jumping in, but if there are testimonies of both positive and negative experiences, then the best way is to go by one’s own experience. Some people hate/dislike skiing (some even without trying it out), and others who love it. So, the best way to determine whether I’d like skiing or not is to experience it myself.
I’m also not sure why you say that “pain is the elephant in the room.” The evening discourses mention pain a lot - there’s no hiding it. Everyone (old or new students) experiences pain, myself included. Also, one can change one’s posture while sitting - there’s no compulsion that one has to sit still without changing the posture, though it is recommended that one try not to change too frequently. The strong sittings for one hour are after day 4, and again, it’s something that one strives for, without being masochistic about it. Are you saying that you weren’t told in advance (before the course) that there would be pain?
I do not believe in the most common refrain that more one does or achieves (Money, Career, etc) in the world, the more one is accumulating bad karma.
I’m not sure what the source of your comment is. I have still to come across any statement in Hinduism that says “more achievement=bad karma.”
All the best,
Comment by AnotherAmit — September 18, 2007 @ 9:19 am-Amit
Amit-
I was happy to see your posting regardless of my own personal opinion of my experience in the course. You see I found the course beneficial for myself. HOWEVER outside of my own personal experience, I found major issues with how the course was presented. And oddly enough this posting is one of the very few sites on the internet that presents an opposing argument. Those that have been to a course know that a number of people drop midway; it’s good to hear the voice of a highly underrepresented group. Even the vipassana wikipedia page reads like a commercial for Goenka’s courses.
First off, I think we all need to quit arguing whether or not the technique is helpful, a technique is a technique if it helps you wonderful if not try something else. It’s a bit like arguing whether or not apples taste good. However I think we can all admit that it is a very active, one could even say powerful, technique, a technique which should be taught with a good deal more care.
My main personal problems were in the PURPOSEFUL LACK of warning and preparation students are given. Whether or not they learn to swim, throwing a child in the deep end is an immoral teaching style. Yes many people who went would not have gone had they known what they were getting into. But I think that in itself is sign of a problem. It’s my belief that either this organization or at least the individuals who recommend this course to others, purposefully suppress information about the difficulty involved, and even worse, target people with little or no meditation experience. Does this, along with the “mainstream” popularity, sound like TM to anyone else?
I understand the reasons for the organization wanting everyone to have a fresh start. However I feel like this has to be sacrificed in order to stand on the moral ground of telling the “full truth.” Do the course givers really think these people know the full truth when they sign up? How many new students at the end of a course do you hear say “I had no idea it was going to be so painful” ? The course givers know this is the case and they purposefully allow it continue. So that the more people get the course and the few that don’t make it, well you have to break a few eggs etc etc. And no for someone who has no idea whats going on, it is not easy to leave. For a number of people, this represents their first attempts at spirituality, eastern philosophies and/or numerous other categories. And their failure in this represents a failure in that entire category. In fact, these people going through this totally alien and extremely intense experience are likely to confuse feelings of gratitude for the teachers with Stockholm syndrome feelings! And how many are likely in three years to remember mediation as a tool to promote a peaceful lifestyle as opposed to a pain tolerance adventure sport, like so many physical yogas have become to the public.
With anything powerful or invasive you present to others, comes the responsibility of doing everything you can to prepare those getting into it. If say Goenka knew that Joe Smith would be ok, even without Joe knowing what would happen in the course, I would feel better. But instead Goenka beckons us, the unknown public over to see whats in the veiled tents, and yes we the public will follow. And for good or for bad, the image is not easy to handle.
I learned a lot in my course. The guy who has a breakdown and leaves does not. Is my benefit worth his pain? A fair trade? To me that is not a moral teaching.
Comment by Karl — April 7, 2008 @ 2:39 amHello Amit,
It’s all about energy iformation and it ’s transformation. NO matter which way you follow.
Debating will take us nowhere. follow what ever you feel and find it right. In the happines of others lies our
own.
regards,
Comment by roopesh.patel — June 23, 2008 @ 1:27 pm