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Experience from attending Vipassana Course by S.N Goenka (4 days out of 10): Updated
I went to attend a meditation retreat called Vipassana course as taught by S.N. Goenka at the Northwest Vipassana Center in Onalaska, WA on Aug 24th 2006. Vipassana is a general term, referring to Buddhist Meditation techniques. This Vipassana course comes from the teachings of S.N.Goenka and is derived from Theravada buddhism, though that term is never used.
I left in the evening on the 4th day. It is a 10 day course. These are my thoughts for those who wanted to know what happened and for others considering it.
I do not plan to put in day to day or center details, there are some good articles end that do an accurate job of describing it at the end of this post.
Why I went:
-Because I wanted to follow a spiritual path and this one seemed non-controversial.
-It was easily accessible, center are fairly close, frequent courses and so on.
-It was recommended someone people I knew or read about including Nipun who mentioned “everyone should go to at least one Vipassana meditation camp.” and a friend’s brother attends these course and does revisit.
Why I left:
I had enough of the extreme pain. I followed the instruction on the 4th day and did not move my legs for an hour. I had so much pain, I wanted to scream.This on top of pain for all the last 3+ days made me realize I did not want a brutal method of spirituality.
The course is 10 days of meditation bootcamp. It involves sitting down 11 hours for meditation and 1 hour for a discourse day after day, this results in lots of acute as well as continuous pain (in knees, hips, ankles, back and neck, even wrists, etc.)
It is difficult to describe, but the pain was the worst I have ever felt in my life and it was “on” most of the time and for all of the 4 days. It does not go away during the course, students doing their third course were limping.
I do acknowledge, I have only known minor pain in my life: Overdoing a 3000+ft, 11+ mile hike or my first hot yoga class so that I can barely hobble the next day instead of walking, a few cuts around .5 inch, etc.
In trying to show how it was like, I could think of two analogies. To practically see what it implies: Sit for meditation without moving ‘at all’ for 90 minutes in the morning and evening. Do not apply or use anything to ease the pain except sleep and a hot shower once a day. Then do it again next day and then think this happening for 10 days. Another way to get an idea: Imagine a hike or jog double of your current capability, now you have to do this everyday for 10 days. You can go slow on the way, if you want, choose your pace and continue. Use only sleep and shower to ease the pain in the night.
Additional reading on pain: On pain during meditation, Nipun’s pain experience during a Goenka Vipassana course and On Pain and Cycling.
Would I recommend Vipasana course by S.N.Goenka to others: NoInstead I would suggest
-Find your reasoning for meditation (knowledge, Moving towards understanding of God or higher powers, Calmness, wisdom, creating happiness through insight, developing love, getting more energy aware, etc). See my recent blog post: Ideas to think consciously about your spiritual goals and evaluating spiritual paths
-Pick a meditation with goals closest to your goal, learn from a teacher in a short course, 1 hour per day for a few days and do it 30-90 minutes whenever you can. I would suggest trying out teachings of some teachers such like Erich Schiffman, etc.
-Find someone has done that spiritual path and who will be frank with you about it’s drawbacks and advantages.
-Check up RickRoss, the cult information site to ensure the approach is not tainted or outright dangerous.
My notes and opinion about what is Vipassana course by S.N.Goenka:
I believe it might work for some, one needs to understand learn more, what is implied and what is said. It should also be noted, generally the better lies are those based on half-truths. There are other not so obvious aspects to Vipassana course which one should know before signing up.
-It claims to be the path as originally taught by Gautama, the Buddha. It’s purpose is to to make one get to happiness by developing awareness that things are ever changing. Since things are everchanging, one should not react to positive things (cravings) or negative things (aversion), this should eventually result in going through life calmly.
-It has 3 parts: Sila(Conduct), Samadhi(Developing concentration) and Vipassana\Paanya(Develop awareness.)
-The actual method involves going deeper until one is aware of the smallest change on every part of the skin. It is meant in the literal actual and physical sense. One does become very sensitive to be able to detect minor sensations on smaller portions of the body. I got a glimpse of this, it is a new experience and yet freaky. The idea is that continuing this would later result in being used to be able to detect mental thoughts as soon as they arise, avoiding reactions. I did notice that awareness about self, eating, feelings, etc does increase during the course.
-It’s primary appeal is that it is so accessible and free to get into, with donations accepted at the end from those who complete it. There are centers everywhere and courses as they call it (bootcamp, I would say) are happening all the time. It is non religious which appeals to many.
-The assistant teacher and volunteers seem genuine people interested in other people’s benefit and growth. Some other meditators ran into inexperienced teachers, see Jhanananda’s experience
-It is a heavy detox program. No spicy or sweet food, no meat, minimal caffeine, no overeating (no dinner, only fruits at 5 pm, though I do not remember being hungry), no external stimuli(no TV, no reading, no talking or eye contact with anyone on the the course), sleep on time (9:30 pm to 4 am and 12-12:45 if you can squeeze it in) I lost 5 pounds in 4 days, dropping from 174.4 to 168.8.
-About money making. The course is free to enroll into, something does standout.
- If you want to attend a longer course (20 day and then 30 day.) one has to attend two 10 day course and serve one 10 day course (servers or volunteers prepare food, take care of the place, etc)
- None of the teachers or volunteers are paid.
- The old students attending a course are asked to sign up for cleaning up the kitchen and toilets and they do. There was no paid help in the whole center.
- The number of centers is growing, List of those in North America and India. The centers tend to be pretty large (the NorthWest one should be around 80 acres), it makes it easier to be able to have a nice place to walk around and men and women can have separate areas (kitchen, dorm and walking areas.)
-There is no force or holding people back against their wishes. I was out in 45 minutes after I decided. The main volunteer however became more paranoid once I mentioned I was leaving and followed me to the car and waited till I actually drove off.
There are a few not so positive aspects of it, that became more clear as time went by. They are not enough to make it a cult, but are worth knowing.
-There is talk and mention of old feelings and stuck emotions coming up as pain. I believe that is incorrect, the pain is created due to the continous sitting and exertion. But the effects and emotions that surface are real, the pain and isolation probably make it easier to surface.
-There is an almost revered respect for Goenka, the assistant teacher sits on a higher seat and behind him are two higher seats, I guess for Mr. & Mrs. Goenka.
-There is a lot of control and secretiveness, only Goenka teaches the course (through audio talks during group meditation and video during discourse) Areas for servers are off limits to students including other buildings, etc.
-You cannot skip any of the meditation time. If you are too tired, taking a walk or even nod off while say when meditating in your bed, the volunteers are on the lookout to point it out.
-The course is a form of extremism in physical self punishment and in mental breakdown like the sadhus (ascetics) of India or other spiritual approaches I have heard of including Chinmoy\Chinmoy cult link, Zen monks(See above pain article), Zen Master Rama-Frederick Lenz cult link and Landmark forum\Landmark cult link. The physical pain is barely hinted at it on the website by words like “it is an intensive course” and so on.-Mention of other religions and spiritual methods. The direct statements in the group meditation and discourse, is to keep your current religion or spiritual method on hold for the duration of the course. The website and material statements are equivalent of “Hold no judgement against them”. However during some of the discourses, some of the jokes seemed aimed at major religions, though I will admit, it did sound funny.
Here is one: Vipassana is a spiritual path of 1. Knowing the right way. 2. Analyzing with a rational mind on it being a right way. 3. Experiencing the right way.
Here is an analogy of what it means. If one person is unwell and goes to the doctor and gets a prescription. Then it takes the prescription paper, goes home puts a picture of a doctor, prays his doctor is so great, repeats his prescription 101 times, he won’t get well, that is just knowing the way. If the same person decides to ask the doctor, how the prescription will help and the doctor explains to him. It understands the reason behind it. Then it says, great now I know, this can really work and goes all around saying my doctor is great, your doctor is no good, I have checked and he knows his, this is just analyzing the way. Only Vipassana (this course), teaches experiencing the way, that is taking the medicine. This should be on day 3 of the 10 day Vipassana discourse DVD, if one decides to check it out.
-I noticed an irony, the older students respond to Goenka saying, Bhavatu sabba mangalam. (May all beings be happy.) with Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu, though the notice board says it means “We agree.” Being from India and knowing Hindi, I knew different and as the course progressed the irony stuck. Incase some wants to read more, here is a link to a wikipedia article on Sadhus (ascetics) of India.
Please leave a comment or message, if you need more information.
Meditation Hall Image thanks to MarkandMichelle at flickr.
Links to experiences by others:
Simon covers day to day schedule with personal experience during a course in Ladakh and notes on Goenka and his voice, etc. He also mentions “On day four and for the remaining days during the group meditation sessions, we had to remain in one posture without moving the legs, hands or opening the eyes. It is called Strong Determination” and “I did not sleep that well the last couple of days and I had big back problems on the final day.”
Erik’s 43 things entry: What do you actually do on a 10 day course and on the NorthWest Vipassana Center where I went. He also concludes like I did “It’s not relaxing at all” and “It feels a lot like being hypnotized and getting beaten up at the same time. It feels like you could convince yourself that you were a dog if you really wanted to. At least it did for me. You walk out of there like a zombie, covered in tingling and soreness, and just want to lay in the sunny grass until the next gong rings.”
Jhanananda, an experienced meditator goes to a Goenka Retreat and leaves before it is over. A comment: My own experience with the assistant teacher as the main co-ordinator is called was pretty good. He seemed wise, approachable and being able to work with a variety of personalities. Since, they are volunteers, I can understand why this is not a given. He does point out correctly issues with not returning to his car, the assistant teacher not being able to handle Odd or Weird Experiences and General secrecy.
Josh writes about his experience in May 2007 in Vipassana Meditation Boot Camp in two parts.
Technorati Tags: Vipassana Goenka Meditation Buddhism Theravada Buddhism spirituality retreat
Update:
I would recommend going through the comments on this blog post.
My thoughts a year after the course, a little more clearer, a little less raw: More Goenka Vipassana Course thoughts and other information
Last updated: July 2007
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Hello,
Although I appreciate your openness to share about your experiences, having sat a full 10-day course myself, I feel that there are a lot of inaccuracies and assumptions in your review of it. I feel it’s hard to judge it if you haven’t gone through the entire course (as with anything incomplete) since different things come up along the way. For example, there is a much deeper understanding of the physical discomforts that occur in the beginning/middle of the course.
I hope that anyone thinking of attending does not take this review as a whole of hundreds of people’s experiences but a limited experience of one person who did not complete the course (or came anywhere close to it). I would recommend it to anyone who is a serious spritual seeker. In my own life, it has been a grounding force.
Comment by Deep — August 31, 2006 @ 11:21 amHello Deep,
As expected, Goenka Vipassana can and does work for some or not for others, one of my goal with the article is to provide information for those who choose to follow it so that there is information from another viewpoint.
It would help future readers, if you can take time and point out exactly what you think are the inaccuracies as well as assumptions(particularly those I am hinting they are not) and why you think so.
Thanks for your comment and time.
Regards
Comment by Amit D. Chaudhary — August 31, 2006 @ 11:30 amAmit
Hi Amit,
Thanks for sharing your experience!
I’ve atteneded several of these 10 day courses and so I thought I’d make some minor corrections:
>>so I cannot be sure, if to come back you need to pay well for earlier ones.
you don’t.
>>I do know that if you want to attend a longer course (20 day and then 30 day.) one has to attend two 10 day course and serve one 10 day course
the requirements are actually more than that: five 10-day courses, one 8-day, and 1 course served.
happy trails,
viralwork
Comment by viralwork — August 31, 2006 @ 2:28 pmAmit Bhai:
The Buddha, as far as I know, never said that
his path was the only way.
Vipassana is the Jewel in the Crown.
The Crown is prepared by some basic work
like strengthening the mind and if possible the
physical posture.
Till the day “Vipassana” is taken you can sit in any
reasonable posture
(except laying flat) and adjust as you feel necessary.
Only during Vipassana one needs to try very hard with
a determined mind to sit still in whatever posture
suits the person. Some sit in chairs.
So physical discomfort is an initial “barrier”
but if one is committed to peruse the higher goal it
soon disappears.
Sila and Samadhi become a daily way of life.
Pana (paanya) is the driver’s seat
founded on Sila and Samadhi.
Buddha’s logical and step by step way teaches us to
experience and investigate the realms of abstract
knowledge by applying the Right View and Right
Understanding. The ultimate goal being -
Happiness and on to Liberation.
The 10-day course prepares one’s mind to be strong and
provides a glimpse of the path to Happiness.
This path is long and hard.
It makes one responsible for one’s own happiness.
It needs a strong mind to realize this.
Of course, this path is not for all because many are
weak minded and susceptible to superstitions and
depend upon others/rituals for their happiness.
May you have the wisdom to give this course another
try and think deeply of what and where you wish to go.
The personification of Goenkaji (a householder) is not
necessary, as he is the messenger
of the teachings of the Blessed One, the Worthy One,
The Fully Enlightened One –
NAMO TASSA, BHAGAVATO, ARAHTO, SAMMASAMBUDHASSA.
May you be Happy.
Navi
Comment by Navi — September 16, 2006 @ 12:30 pmMy dear friend Amit,
There are thousands and thousands of people world over
who have found the path unquestionably universal and free
of dogma providing results here and now. Give it
another try, and don’t fight with yourself. The pain of
sickness and death far exceeds the pain that you have
felt. So why be unprepared .
My wife has done courses while carrying. Indeed if an
expecting woman can go through the 10 days twice over.
It should be manageable.
sanjay
Comment by sanjay — October 9, 2006 @ 12:49 amHello Sanjay,
Thanks for the thoughts and time.
I do not buy into the logic of “get pain now so that one is ready for it later.” However, it would be ok if that was clear to those who are getting into Goenka Vipassana that lots of pain is part of the package.
It is probably not what you intended, but it comes across that you think a mother(like your wife or mine) can handle less pain than a man(me.) I have seen and have been there when my wife gave birth, I doubt if there is anything I will go through in the next 10 years, if not all my life which comes close to what a woman goes through during childbirth and how much pain they do handle before, during and after.
One thing you can help future readers with is, let us know what other things you have gone through which had more physical pain?
If this is what you are looking for, I am accepting that all the people who have attended the courses are more stronger(capable of handing more pain) than me.
On the dogma part, again I disagree.
Dogma (the plural is either dogmata or dogmas) is belief or doctrine held by a religion or any kind of organization to be authoritative. Evidence, analysis, or established fact may or may not be adduced, depending upon usage. (From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogma)
1. There is continous reference to this Vipassana being the true path of Buddha, the Gautama. In the stories during the discourses (one buy the 10 day CD too), there are many stories that openly hint that other paths including prayer do not help. Here is one of the stories, this should be on day 3 of the 10 day Vipassana discourse CD\DVD, if one decides to check it out.
One person is unwell and goes to the doctor and gets a prescription. Then he takes the prescription paper, goes home puts a picture of his doctor, prays his doctor is so great, repeats his prescription 101 times. He won’t get well, that is just knowing the way. If the same person decides to ask the doctor, how the prescription will help and the doctor explains to him. It understands the reason behind it. Then it says, great now I know, this can really work and goes all around saying my doctor is great, your doctor is no good, I have checked and he knows his field, this is just analyzing the way. The same person if he goes homes and takes the medicine, he experiences it. Only Vipassana (this course) teaches experiencing the way,
One cannot say prayer(an important and probably the most spiritual practice for many in Hinduism, Christainity, Muslims, etc) does not work without trying it and knowing it.
2. There is strong need to control. The teacher does not give the discourse, only the Video\Audio feed of Goenkaji does. At one phase, there is trust (like when you are in the course) and at another there is total distrust(like when I was leaving and they had someone stay with me all the time till I drove off.)
These are signs of a religious movement which are more stricter than open religion.
So, I would say it is a Dogma which says it is not a dogma. Do be non-dogma, there should not be just lip service that enlightenment(if I may use that word) can be found in many paths.
The free camps\courses makes it easier to try out and isolation helps people go over the initial hump. I will agree it does seem to work for many including those I respect and that it that.
Regards
Comment by Amit D. Chaudhary — October 9, 2006 @ 11:08 amAmit
Hi Amit!
I would just like to add, agreeing with what is said above, that having
attended 3 courses and served ½ - I just cam back from a nice small 3-days
course (you can do that, if you have attended a full course, so that you know
the technique)
It has been a while since I did my last course (found out: 8 years, go figure!)
and I did never hear, that I SHOULD sit in the same position all the time.
That would be unnecessairy torture. Don’t do that! Be happy. Smile and change
your position. Of course the body don’t like to sit still for so many days.
But the point is, that you can choose to make it a little more comfortable
for yourself, so that you can hear, that the far more important thing, is
to try to sit with yourself and watch yourself with an equanimous mind.
This is the big challenge!! In my opinion. Actually Goenka says you can change
positure, so if you feel for it, try again, and be gentle to yourself
We all have our own fights and yours has its own name. I remember I was angry
especially at 4 a.m in the morning.. 
at my first course at the bell
I also felt sadness. This time, I realised, that things had changed in me,
for the better, even I did not practice for many years.
I hope, this could be helpfull for you.
Many wishes Bettina
Comment by Bettina Laursen Denmark — October 17, 2006 @ 2:21 amMy Dear Friend Amit,
Give it another try…….be open. There is nothing
to loose and everything to gain.
There are people who have
abandoned their effort, and have had experiences like
you have narrated. Some of them have come again and gone
on to become established Teachers on the Path.
There is such beauty in understanding and feeling that
our moods are nothing but just products of shifting
sensations. Its wonderful Amit, so wonderful.An absolute
delight, a revelation that is so plain to feel, but yet
eludes us.
May we share your merits and may you share all the merits
that accrue by becoming noble hearted.
Warm regards,
sanjay
PS:
Seasons change, feelings changes, people change……..
Comment by Sanjay — October 17, 2006 @ 3:46 amDear Amit,
Our good wishes are with you.
I took the 10 day course last year in Igatpuri.
I also experienced
significant pain since I had never sat cross-legged for
all my life. However, I kept changing my posture when I
reached a point which was unbearable. Nobody stopped me
for changing the posture during the entire 10 days.
However I was determined to complete the course. The
benefits from the course has indeed been
significant for me.
Surprisingly, my parents (both 65 years old) with severe
back pain and knee joint pains, comfortably completed
the 10 day course earlier this year. They sat in a chair
and changed postures when convenient to them.
All it requires is willpower and determination. Don’t be
too worried about the posture.
If you still feel you don’t want to take another course.
so be it. I strongly believe that its your past karma
that leads to future actions. If you are destined to do
the course, you will certainly do it.
I suggest atleast to surf the dhamma website and read
as much as possible. It will give you inspiration.
Best wishes
Comment by Raj — October 30, 2006 @ 7:16 amRaj
Amit,
I ran across your report on the Goenka retreat googling for info on his retreats since I’ve signed up for a course in February. Very interesting….
I was wondering what your meditation practice was like prior to attending the 10 day retreat.
In the 30 days preceding the retreat how often did you sit in meditation and how long did you sit each time and was your practice consistent before the retreat?
I’m just guessing but I can’t help but think that this may shed some light on why you were in so much pain. In your report you stated “the physical pain is barely hinted at” but surely it is implied that you are going to be mighty uncomfortable sitting in one position for hours if you’re not accustomed to it. FWIW, I sit 2 hours a day (1 in morning and 1 in evening) and even I went “wow..” when I saw the schedule.
Kind regards and thank you for the report.
Thomas
Comment by tbradnc — December 23, 2006 @ 2:00 pmThomas,
I use to sit 45-60 minutes once or twice a week before the retreat and did not
follow meditation before the retreat.
The advantage at home is that the off time for you will help you recover, there
is no break on the retreat.
For me, not being able to do Yoga increased other minor aches like neck pain, etc.
Just keep in mind that it is also a physical endure like climbing Mt. Rainier.
Amit
Comment by Amit D. Chaudhary — December 23, 2006 @ 11:07 pmAmit, Your comments are very frank, open, truthful. I was very happy to read your comments and see no trace of anger anywhere, other than the fact you experienced a lot of pain.
I am not authorized to comment on the technique. But it is my understanding that part of the technique is to experience pain and really understands what it is! Vipassana means ” to observe in a special way”.
By observing pain you will certainly reach the stage where the gross sensations (pain)becomes subtle - gross sensations are unpleasant and subtle is very pleasant. Vipassana is not to enjoy pleasure but to understand the transient nature of all that is mind & matter and as Goenkaji says, to go beyond it! This is possible by developing awareness & equanimity (Upeksha /Upekkha)
As others suggested when pain overpowers pl. change posture… Best regards,
myladoor
Comment by TG — January 19, 2007 @ 9:26 amDear Amit,
I have sat four courses and each time at some stage during the course I have wondered why I go back and each time I work through the problems I`m so glad I did. Pain is just one thing to work through. I went to the teacher on one course and complained about my back and knees. I said I had started to sweat at one point because the pain had been so bad. In reply he simply said with a compasionate smile ” then move”. I felt folish in light of the obvious solution to my problem. All the time concentrating on the pain and not the solution to my pain. In time as I practiced this technique I realised there were other soulutoins to my many pains both mental and physical. Its very hard to put the intructions from the teachers into practice, even the most simple ones. When I was told repeatedly to “accept reality as it is not as you would like it to be” it realy anoyed me right up until the point I actually did it. Until that point all I could think about was pain, running away and how anoying everything was. After that point my concetration got better and I discovered how to dissolve the pain. For me, I now understand pain is a lable I give to things which hurt me. When I am able to look past the lable and look at the thing its self and understand it will pass it is no longer pain or at the very least is easily bearable. When I can`t look past that lable of pain I rest or wait until I can. There are so many benifits to be had. My life has changed in a big way. If you can get through the initial early problems I`m sure you will get so much out of a ten day course. It is not all about pain. In time your perception of it will change and help remove the lable for longer and longer periods. I hope you find my experiences helpful. Whatever your choice I hope you find happiness.
Paul
Comment by Paul — February 12, 2007 @ 7:26 amdear amit,
unlike many of the posters above, I totally agree with your doubts and concerns about vipassana meditation. I
also believe that it takes as much courage to leave early on day four as it does to sit through the whole
ten days. At the end of the day, the voice inside of you is the only authority worth listening to.
that being said, it should be noted that one should be wary of Goenka and his organization for more reasons than
Comment by red — March 11, 2007 @ 3:56 pmhis technique. His organization is large and very influential. People who hold or have held positions in the
United Nations, various government and corporate organizations are active members in the vipassana movement. The
movement is huge, worldwide, and aims to absorb other religions and philosophies into a global mindset. When
human beings try to reach across the divide of our differences in culture and religion, they are engaging in one
of the most noble challanges that faces humanity. However there is something intrinsically wrong with a movement
that claims to be non-sectarian and then proposes that its *dharmic-path* is the only way.
Hello Amit:
I read your website about your experiences at the 10 day course. One thing jumped out at me. You called the course “Brutal Spirituality”. I know what the whole experience was about, as I completed my first 10 day course. I have back problems that occur mostly at work, so I know what constant pain is like. The pain in the meditation was very hard to endure, but if you had finished the 4th day, you would have learned the technique to transcend that pain. They taught us that pain and pleasure are equal sensations. After 10 days of observing this in your body, you could have changed your feeling toward pain. Life is not just pleasurable sensations. To have a Spirituality that only consists of pleasure is very dangerous, and not based on reality!
Try it again with an open mind, and better cushions under your knees. The schedule was very busy, but nobody forced me to meditate for 12 hours a day. I had plenty of time to recover in my room. I would not meditate for the whole 1.5 hours. I would sit on my bed for 45 minutes, and then take a walk, or take a nap.
Sincerely,
Comment by Michael — March 24, 2007 @ 2:25 pmMichael
Hi
Comment by raman — April 1, 2007 @ 7:22 pmI had same feeling before I completed 1st course successfully
I ran away i think 3 times but I finally i made it and it gave me
wonderful results, I did one more course ad 1 three day course
It worked, it works, it will..
Believe me I would say myself beofre and after vipassana.
still I am making so many mistakes in my ife, yet i aware, trying not
to do i am planning to go one more course again.
All I would say just give 1 fair trail for a 10 day couse
If you like it go ahead if you dont like its ok say”I dont like it”
You should’t evaluate a movie with out being there until climax(of course you may like it or not) think seriously..
Thanks
Raman
This is not the only so called “dharmic path”.
There are others just as Mr Goenka mentions on the ten day courses. He also encourages
anyone to stay on the path which ever one they choose. He then goes on to say that an effective
way to achieve a correct path (or progression, however you wish to phrase it)
is by observing physical sensations throught out the body with out reacting to them and that this technique
has proved to help many people with that progression. Once you find a technique that suits you stick with it he says.
As long as you work with sensations properly you are bound to progress. But until you have worked with sensations
you can never know how or why this is so. If it is not your experience why should you believe it?
Which ever path you choose may it be a happy one
Comment by paul — April 6, 2007 @ 9:19 amPaul
Hello,
Comment by David D'Agostino — April 9, 2007 @ 10:31 pmI sat for one ten day course. It worked for me. I feel the benefits. It is not for everyone. That’s o.k. I am a terrible sitter. I don’t sit every day and I still get drunk and stoned sometimes. That’s o.k. too. That is where I am on the path. I still sit once and a while and plan to go back to the center for another 10 day course and I hope to serve at some point. I felt a lot of pain as well during the course. It didn’t completely go away but my body did get used to it and wasn’t so bad toward the end. Plus I realized the pain was ultimately doing no serious harm to me. I learned to see it more as matter. It was hard and I am still not the best at it but the benefits are worth 10 days of pain. Maybe it’s not for you but it dose sound like it made an impact on you anyway. Maybe you will try it again someday. I am sure you can sit in a chair instead of on the floor if the pain is unbearable.
Love
David
hi and hello,
having sat 3 10 day courses with 5 degenerated disks, 2 crushed vertebra and a bipolar disorder is a good combination to test a student.
i must say it was tough the 1st time, the thoughts, pain and racing brain ect, the 2nd and 3rd time was much easier, but by no means a walk in the park.
if you tell them your in pain they will make alliances…
its down to how much your are willing to get to know yourself.
don’t give up you will be in the same boat in the next life, if there is one!!!
hope this puts some light on this,
be well!!
regards,
with metta
Comment by paul ireland — April 10, 2007 @ 7:08 ampaul…..
I took the ten-day course a couple of years ago and found it very strenuous, physically and emotionally. By the seventh day I was counting the hours until it was time to go home and if I had had my own car (my husband dropped me off and picked me up) I surely would have taken off by then. At the end of the course, I left the camp knowing that I would never try the technique again.
However, a few days after I got home, I had an early term miscarriage and my first instinct was to start meditating again. Since then, I’ve meditated semi-regularly and I’m now very glad I took the course. I’d like to do another course again some day, when I can muster up the courage–it was really tough.
Comment by Anna — April 17, 2007 @ 2:25 pmvipassana is good
Comment by sujit gurung — May 4, 2007 @ 9:45 pmmorale becomes good
u reach extacy
keep doing and feel the difference
once is not enough
sab ko mangal hos
sab ka mangal hos
nepal,kathmandu
Dear Amit,
I just came back from a 10 day Vipassana Exec course in Dallas, Tx. I almost didnt go because I read your blog.
However I feel sorry for you for not giving the technique a fair trial. It takes 10 days for the the technique and its benefits to reveal itself. The benefits I received are.
1. Resolving past emotional problems that were buried for over 20 years.
2. Unleashing my creativity. I got so many ideas for my business that are stunning.
3. Ability to observe your emotions and react accordingly and not like an animal.
4. Almost cured my coccyx pain. I had injured myself in a Snow boarding accident. I have been going to chiropractors for over 4 years. Vipassana meditation trains your mind to observe your pain. The pain slowly becomes less excruciating and then totally disappears. Since you left on the 4th day. So didnt experience this. People after the 6th day weren’t bothered by the pain.
5. I have been an agnostic all my life. This is the first technique and philosophy that agrees with my rational mind. Buddha was not interested in starting a religion and a cult. Also Mr. Goenka kept reiterating that you only accept that teaching that conforms to your rational mind and your own experience.
6. Sadhu is a Pali (Ancient Indian language) word in this context.
7. Networking with accomplished people in all kinds of fields. We had a NASA engineer, Hotelier, Hedge Fund manager, Entreprenuers, Real Estate Developers, Venture Capitalists, Oilmen of almost all religious and racial persuasions.
8. Its free. They dont even charge you anything for Food and board.
9. The increased concentration has already improved my golf game.
So all I can say is that give it a fair trial before you make up your mind.
Comment by Mohit S. Jain — May 17, 2007 @ 7:38 amDear Amit,
Your experience takes me back in time. A time when, things you mentioned ringed completely true. But with my second 10 day session, I have stopped SEEINg-what reality IS and can be living in the NOW. Now, after all these years- seventeen long ones, Vipassana has truly saved my life.
I have lived in many countries. The present one is America (also by birth right). But, I have never found any family over here. And that kind of does not resonate when I meditate. Then, All things come together. These views are entirely personal, I agree. But even then, what all of us can observe is CHANGE. And Vipassana letting me know that change is WITHIN, wow! Can you imagine that EXPERENTIALLY?
If you can, you already have had Vipassana. And there never is force involved in going to places and what applies to you may only be a glimpse of one section of your OWN internal Universe. And that means you are using it in a specific direction. So feel free to be a little more fair-minded. Take care man, Neal
Comment by neal — June 3, 2007 @ 3:37 pmNeal,
I would say, the insight is a result of most meditations including Vipassana.
Amit
Comment by Amit D. Chaudhary — June 6, 2007 @ 12:32 pmDear Amit,
Comment by krish — July 4, 2007 @ 5:39 pmI attended two 10 days course.Second time e.thing was more clearer than the first time.I sat on the floor during both the course. I stayed in the meditation hall most of the time but I found many students attended ony three times group session of one hour each ( not 90 mts as u mentioned). I observed many students were seated either on chairs or near the wall.Goenka do mention that u could change ur posture for the first few days and advises to take the path that suits u and remain with it to know thy self. No promotion was done to sell anything. I got the A.tapes with my own great effort. They are awesome. It is like climbing Himalayas not an easy job. I would suggest that e.day morning 5mts before geting out of the bed and night 5 mts before going to sleep u just observe ur breathe. u may pl see the +ve effects after few days. I meditate twice a day 1 hr each in full lotus posture.
wish u goodluck
Regards
Krish
Hello Amit,
Believe it or not, I was at the same retreat in Onalaska. In fact, I think I remember seeing you leave. I respectfully disagree with your assessment of Vipassana. While I agree that the first few days were difficult and somewhat painful, it did get much easier for me. And I didn’t see any return students limping. I have spoken to others who experienced much more pain that I did and all of them said the pain eventually diminished. Vipassana is not for the meek. It attempts to break though an entire lifetime of objectification, of living in the past and the future in our own minds. Personally, I had an amazing spiritual experience there. The breakthrough came on day 7.
Lee
Comment by Lee — July 31, 2007 @ 10:52 amHi Amit,
Your bootcamp, some like it, some don’t. I would not mind the hard way, but as has been remarked already, the middle way is to keep it nice for yourself and relax ! (you call this “HEAVY detox”: No spicy or sweet food, no meat, minimal caffeine, no overeating, no external stimuli(no TV, no reading, no talking or eye contact ), sleep on time ??? lol ). And aren’t you a bit paranoid calling a volunteer who follows you to your car paranoid ? I think you are a bit oversensitive to jokes at major religions.
My paranoia would be the cost-freeness.
I am considering this course (in asia), and I must say i don’t feel attracted to this “revered Goenka” thing, neither to the video and audio. Goenka learned it from this Ba Khin, so, is it a thing going back very long? If it is, Goenka is just passing it on.
The essential thing must be the method you mention of awareness of the smallest processes in the body. I intend to learn about my mind, the method sounds familiar. Well, i ll have another look around.
Comment by Ayman — August 8, 2007 @ 12:36 pmrespected amit ji,
namaste
may you be happy and peaceful!
the photograph of the “meditation hall” that you have included above is not correct. there are no statues of any kind (buddha or any other) in the meditation hall of a vipassana meditation center. the students are not asked to worship any statues etc.
regards
dr manish agarwala
Comment by dr manish agarwala — August 9, 2007 @ 12:10 pmI’ve just escaped from a Vipassana in Blackheath NSW in Australia on day four.
I found it to be all about mind control and the worship of Goenka. The constant chanting and discourse tapes drove me crazy.
The ‘assistant teachers’ were little more than button pushers, who had little but clichés to offer in response to questions.
I found it disappointing and misleading.
I certainly wouldn’t recommend it to anyone interested in Buddhism.
I feel it is a cult - the cult of Goenka.
Comment by andrew — August 13, 2007 @ 4:13 amI have recently read a bit more about mahasi, sounds much better for going straight into vipassana.
Comment by Ayman — August 16, 2007 @ 8:08 amThe internet is full of Goenka promotional texts. That can never be good.
I noticed an irony, the older students respond to Goenka saying, Bhavatu sabba mangalam. (May all beings be happy.) with Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu, though the notice board says it means “We agree.” Being from India and knowing Hindi, I knew different and as the course progressed the irony stuck. Incase some wants to read more, here is a link to a wikipedia article on Sadhus (ascetics) of India.
Amit,
Sadhu is a Hindi word and also a Pali word. From the wikipedia entry:
“In Theravada Buddhism, the term is used from the ancient Pali root language to denote agreement with something which was said, or after a discourse of the Buddha was recited. It is repeated two or three times — “Sādhu! Sādhu! Sādhu!” — with the intended effect of “Well said, well put, we agree”.”
All the best,
Comment by AnotherAmit — September 18, 2007 @ 9:35 am-Amit
Hi, It’s a real shame that you did not complete the course. I have recently completed my second 10 day course. I myself have got reservations about some aspects, for example I do not agree that they let complete beginners onto the course with little sitting experience, and the general conditions are really strict. I think it could only get stricter if you were not allowed to sleep for 2 or 3 days and were whacked on the back with a stick to keep you awake!
Having said that, my last 10 day stint was a revelation to me, and exceeded my expectations a thousand percent. I have been meditating for about 10 years and had got into a limited fixed idea about what it was all about and what I was capable of. This course took me to a whole new level and beyond, and I already feel like a different person. I am getting my confidence back and feel much more alert, despite the medication I take. I intend to practise at home twice a day or more, and go to group sittings.
Regarding the pain, I was a little cautious in that I would only resolve to sit for the hour without moving if, and only if, I managed to get comfortable at the beginning, because a small pain at the beginning can quickly turn into agony. Thankfully, because my meditations progressed so well, I managed to stay totally motionless for at least 70% of the sittings, and found that in deeper states, the pain vanished and my body became very supple and light. The suffering of pain is 90% caused by our wish to get rid of it!
I would recommend that you get more accustomed to sitting for longer periods, and then seriously consider going for the ten day course again.
Best wishes
Comment by David — September 20, 2007 @ 5:00 amDavid
Amit,
I appreciate both your attempt to go on retreat and your frank comments about it. I have had similar “inner voice” resistances right from the fourth day. Nevertheless, I did my best to stay with the sensations that made up that inner voice itself; and focused on their Three Characteristics: that they are impermanent, unsatisfactory and no-self. You simply reacted out of your inner voice and bailed out of the course.
As you mentioned in the comments, “insight” is the result of Buddhist meditation. Insight of what? Do you know? Insight into the Three Characteristics of just that inner resistance that made up your mind to leave. You left because you did not truly wanted to gain insight, but simply find comfort.
I suggest you read through this book which was written by an Arahat in a very honest way, http://interactivebuddha.com/mctb.shtml (I’ve never come across any writing more straight-forward than this one)
PS: I no longer do Vipassana as such, but sitting Zazen.
Comment by Sridhar Ratnakumar — October 5, 2007 @ 11:24 pmThe Pain: In my first course the pain started from my knees / legs and spread outward. I tried holding my legs slightly elevated first with my leg muscles then later with my hands which were placed on my knees. This helped somewhat. To maintain this posture I was breathing like I was lifting weights. The person next to me started breathing the same way. The male manager came by and asked him to stop. Woops… I got the guy in trouble but did not get caught myself… so I stopped also. But the pain just got deeper and spread. As I touched my knee to hold it up to relieve the pain… even the touch of skin flared more and deeper pain… this was more than just muscle pain… my mind could not understand why there was so much pain… I was not putting my limbs in a vice… I was not in sulfuric acid (that’s what it felt like) There was NO REASON for so much pain. I was just sitting there. So I gave up. I stopped trying to remove the pain but let it be as it was. I stopped opposing it.
As I did that… the pain left. It was like a wave flowing over me from one end of the pain mass (which covered me from my lower legs up to my upper legs). This flow over me removed the pain. I just watched it move over me. In an instant I was pain free after 3 days of fighting the pain. The pain would not come back. I felt my knees, legs, everything… totally pain free. I could not make the pain come back. Have not had that pain since then. I have had some discomfort, and small aches and pain… but not the pain that I call “the death pain” because it is so … wierd, like sitting on hot lava… however that feels… which I don’t really know (so far).
So I experienced what Dave said above: “The suffering of pain is 90% caused by our wish to get rid of it!”
The exercise is to watch what is happing to the body and not try to make it go away or for pleasure … make it come more or attach to it. Anicca - everything is changing.
Once that is learned with your being… it seems it stays with you (at least for me). I’ve had other experiences with this … and having the ability to “let it be” had been and is still very valuable. So if I did not have any pain, I may not have been able to see how to “let it be” and I may still think that “I” am in charge if everything.
Peace, (solarorganic@yahoo.com)
Comment by Donald — October 10, 2007 @ 6:47 amearthenergy (donald)
Dear Amit,
I too understand your wanting to leave on the 4th day. I wanted to myself, and Goenka himself talks about having packed his bags either on the 3rd or 4th day of his first course before a fellow meditator encouraged him to stay on! I stayed, and when Vipassana was given on the afternoon of the 4th day, I felt my whole being transformed. And when I went outside following that session, the sky was filled with rainbows!
Which is not to glorify the experience. I have often described it as one of the most difficult things I have ever done in my life (by far outweighing childbirth!) But I believe that the reason is that you are brought face to face with yourself during this experience. No interactions with others, constant focus on your own internal state. You discover your own paranoia, your terrors. You are truly with yourself — and that can be a very painful and frightening thing. For me, one of the greatest benefits I received was the discovery that I can survive pain, both physical and emotional. I learned that nothing stays the same–that no matter how awful (or wonderful) you feel at any given moment, it too shall pass. I learned I could hold on just a little longer and things would be better. My first go around, I ignored the pain too much, and ended up suffering for several months afterward. By the second time, I had learned I could–and should–change positions when my arthritic body needed me to. That course ended up being more about emotional pain than physical. I learned in that course about the “scripts” that had defined my life, and was able to evaluate them and initiate changes subsequently, both internal and external. And like one of those who wrote above, it became an enormously creative time for me, in which I conceived of many new ideas for my work.
I hope you will give it another try, if that feels right for you. I did not pursue Vipassana myself as a spiritual pursuit — in fact, what drew me to it was its very grounded, non-sectarian, logical approach. The benefits are learning to live with yourself.
With all good wishes,
Comment by Allie — October 21, 2007 @ 11:27 amAllie
Dear Amit,
I used to attend a 10 day Vipassana of Goenka but lead by other facilitator. Yes, I agree with you the pain without any wisdom or explanation to reach my goal. My goal was to search and proof the Lord Buddha’s teaching - know the Dhuka, know the impermanent, and the Anatta (non-self). That was 10 years ago.
Now I have found the right and straight forward to the real Buddha’s teaching and meditation retreat which is so simple and makes me gain the understanding of the absolute truth out of the conventional truth. In the retreat center at Hua Hin, Thailand, where one can occupy a cottage with facilities of bath room, bed room, dining table, and walk path. There is no class, no time limit, and no ritual.
The method of this retreat is based on the 4 noble truth. We see the pains, the feeling, the attachment of our mind to somethings; then we relief the pains (mostly from sitting and walking) by changing our posture slowly knowing that the changes are meant just to relief pains not forsatisfaction or comfort.
We see the feelings pop up with our consciousness (you need to be mindful), then the existing feelings will pause. By this way of touching our feelings we see the bad thoughts and good thoughts as well.
When we see the bad or good of our thoughts keep processing, we then pause and detach the thinking and feel freedom of mind not to cling to the make-up stories pop up in our mind.
I used to try in many ways and many places for meditation for 10 years, and luckily I have found a very good teacher who is now at the age of 93 years old. These days, I can confront somewhat level of pains, troublesome, unsatisfaction cause I know how to detach them out of my mind and not to be unhappy with the uncontrollable things rising to my contacts.
Before I found the right and most practical way of meditation, I study in Api-dharma for years and go in depth of the contents which help me understand more and more the way of life.
I know that you might be the one who wants to discover yourself and/or discover the way of life so that you put yourself into the meditation. With this understanding, I would like to share my experiences with my sincere compassion to you who may not yet be disappointed and be away from the meditation.
All my intention to write this comment to you is to share a word with you ” Do not give up !” There is really a right way and so simple to practice and be detached from the Dhuka. You may check with www.plumvillage.org for further study of meditation.
I’m sorry if my English is not so good that you would get all my points. I am a Thai lady who has been in the path of Buddha’s taught.
With my sincere loving kindness to you.
Comment by Nantana Chan — October 28, 2007 @ 8:59 amNantana C.
If you read the FAQ answers on the main Vipassana website, you’ll find that Goenka believes the following:
“We have to understand that the practice of Vipassana meditation leads you naturally to eliminate sexual desire. Gradually the meditator will become full of love for others without expecting anything in return. Passion is replaced by compassion. At this stage sexual activity becomes inadequate to express such pure love. Without any repression or suppression, the meditator enters into a stage of natural celibacy.
What is the pus of the mind? Now the worst pus that you have is sexual passion.
And if sexual passion comes on the surface, it becomes stronger for a male when he is in contact with the vibration of a female. When a female develops passion, it is strengthened by contact with the vibrations of a male. And if you remain intermingled while you are doing this operation, it is dangerous. It will harm you.
For… Vipassana meditators, a time will come that they will naturally come out of the need for sex. Sex is not necessary. By nature, they are contented, so happy, the body relations have no meaning.
By observing you can easily free yourself of passion… and gradually develop towards the stage in which sex has no meaning at all. This is the stage of real, natural celibacy, when not even a thought of passion arises in the mind. This celibacy gives a joy far greater than any sexual satisfaction. Always one feels so contended, so harmonious. One must learn to experience this real happiness.”
THAT PRETTY MUCH SUMS UP WHAT THIS IS REALLY ALL ABOUT
Comment by Ted Peters — October 30, 2007 @ 4:24 amHello,
I’ve been doing Vipassana meditation for 8 years now (not regularly but I will
sooner than later!) and have never felt better in my life.
I do NOT think that
1. It is a cult (Mr Goenka himself says in one of the discourses that if anybody
after giving it a fair trial thinks that Vipassana is not for him or her, they
are more than welcome to discard it from their lives)
2. It is by any means secretive (people are given access to go around the
whole campus AFTER they’ve finished the course or BEFORE they start the course
but don’t expect them to show you their balance sheet! Servers are separated
from the students so as not to cause any discomfort to them as the servers
are allowed to talk between themselves and with the assistant teachers)
3. Mr. S. N. Geoenka is worshipped or revered (Yes, he is definitely looked upto,
but it is because of him that Vipassana has become what it is today, so
why should anyone have a problem with people admiring him? Not that he demands
your appreciation)
4. It is not a painful exercise. Don’t expect the whole thing to be a breeze
when you go for a course. You will experience terrible pains but if you work
diligently the way Vipassana wants you to work, the pains would gradually subside.
I can certainly vouch for that because I’ve experienced it myself.
5. You should sit like a Buddha. Yes, there are three one hour sessions
where you are expected to sit without changing a posture but if you can’t,
nobody is going to crucify you. And outside of those sessions, you can go out
for a stretch or a walk if you wish to, any number of times.
Finally, I would like to add that nobody should make judgements without personally
experiencing what it is. Do a course and then decide for yourself. Personally, I
would recommend it more than anything else
Cheers
Comment by Jai — November 22, 2007 @ 6:40 pmJai (jaicharanreddy@gmail.com)
I just finished my first course. I read the info on this site before attending, and had second thoughts about attending, but decided to go anyway. Because the info on this site had such an impact on me, it seemed only right to add my comments to the others.
By day four, I was cursing myself for having been so stupid as to attend the course, but despite the pain, the lonliness and the difficulty of the course, I decided to stick it out. After all, I reasoned, I couldn’t honestly complain about it if I left early. Day 5, no better. Day 6, no better. Day 7, no better … and so on. Days 8 and 9 were nominally easier, but not much. On day 9, two guys in the row behind me left the course. I felt a little envious. Day 10 was much better. Day 11 I went home … and was stunned at how much had changed inside me, and even how different the external world seemed.
Was it hard? Yes. The hardest thing I’ve ever done. Was it worth it?
Absolutely.
Next time I take a course I will bring either a chair, a backjack, or something with back support. Also, I didn’t sit perfectly still more than one hour a day. I simply couldn’t do it. No one reprimanded me. In fact, when I spoke to the teacher about my pain, he encouraged me to move when necessary. I wasn’t hungry, and I enjoyed the silence (for the most part). The hardest part was sitting on a cushion for 11 or so hours a day. I just wasn’t used to doing that, and it was difficult and painful. Still, it wasn’t debilitating, and I did myself no real harm.
Anyone interested in taking a course, check it out, but bring something with back support, or a small folding chair. Prepare yourself in advance for the fact that this is tough, but that if your experience is like the vast majority of people who attend, it will be worth it.
Good luck, and best wishes!
Comment by Steve — December 13, 2007 @ 9:14 amJust completed my first 10 day here in Pomona, Queensland, Australia. My experiences did not mirror Amit’s experiences.
I was surprised that a lot of my fellow male meditators had problem sitting.
One of the meditators (on day 10, after Noble silence was lifted) explained to me usually the pain is as a result three factors
1) not knowing how to sit properly
2) not having done some exercises to “open” up the hips.
3) not rotating the buttocks up prior to sitting down (necessary for a straight back)
He also showed me a series of 4 stretching exercises that he employed in non-sitting hours, like when listening to the discourses. Unfortunately my digital camera had flat batteries, or I’d share them with you.
Some people by their very constitution have a more delicate nature, and may be more sensitive to pain. For these people, it’s advisable that they prepare themselves by working on their sitting posture prior to attending.
Warning: The sitting hours are quite long. 12 hours from day 1 to 9, and 6 hours on day 10. People who are overweight or are at risk of DVT should consider carefully any physical consequences before signing up.
Comment by Chui Tey — January 6, 2008 @ 9:16 pm-There is talk and mention of old feelings and stuck emotions coming up as pain. I believe that is incorrect, the pain is created due to the continous sitting and exertion. But the effects and emotions that surface are real, the pain and isolation probably make it easier to surface.
ANS)BUT THE OLD THOUGHT EVAPORATE AS YOU PRACTICE E.DAY IN THE FORM OF PAIN
-There is an almost revered respect for Goenka, the assistant teacher sits on a higher seat and behind him are two higher seats, I guess for Mr. & Mrs. Goenka.
ANS) HIS FOUNDATION IS GITA,UPANISHAD & VEDANDA THEREFORE HIS MESSAGES STRIKES LIKE A GONG
-There is a lot of control and secretiveness, only Goenka teaches the course (through audio talks during group meditation and video during discourse) Areas for servers are off limits to students including other buildings, etc.
ANS) NO SECRET IT IS AN OPEN BOOK. I JUST RETURNED FROM A SERVICE 20 OF US SHARED A HALL AND HAD COMMON BATH & REST ROOMS.NEW STUDENTS COMPORT WERE UTMOST IMPORTANT.
-You cannot skip any of the meditation time. If you are too tired, taking a walk or even nod off while say when meditating in your bed, the volunteers are on the lookout to point it out.
ANS) WRONG. ONLY THREE GROUP SITTINGS ARE COMPULSORY OTHERS U CAN DO WHEREVER U WANTED.
-The course is a form of extremism in physical self punishment and in mental breakdown like the sadhus (ascetics) of India or other spiritual approaches I have heard of including Chinmoy\Chinmoy cult link, Zen monks(See above pain article), Zen Master Rama-Frederick Lenz cult link and Landmark forum\Landmark cult link. The physical pain is barely hinted at it on the website by words like “it is an intensive course” and so on.
ANS) NO CULT INVOLVED AND NO PHYSICAL TORTURE. AS THE COURSE IS SELF TRAINING AND SELF REALIZATION MIND CREATES THE ILLUSION TO GET THE WEAK MINDED PEOPLE RUN AWAY. I SIT IN LOTUS POSTURE DURING MEDITATION EVENTHOUGH ORIGINALLY I TOO EXPERIENCED THE PAINS U WERE TALKING ABOUT.
-Mention of other religions and spiritual methods. The direct statements in the group meditation and discourse, is to keep your current religion or spiritual method on hold for the duration of the course. The website and material statements are equivalent of “Hold no judgement against them”. However during some of the discourses, some of the jokes seemed aimed at major religions, though I will admit, it did sound funny.
ANS) WHEN U WANT TO DRINK TEA U CAN GET THRU PROPER TEA LEAVES NOT BY MIXING TEA,COFFEE, OR ANYTHING ELSE.IF U DO THAT THE PURITY IS LOST
Here is one: Vipassana is a spiritual path of 1. Knowing the right way. 2. Analyzing with a rational mind on it being a right way. 3. Experiencing the right way.
Here is an analogy of what it means. If one person is unwell and goes to the doctor and gets a prescription. Then it takes the prescription paper, goes home puts a picture of a doctor, prays his doctor is so great, repeats his prescription 101 times, he won’t get well, that is just knowing the way. If the same person decides to ask the doctor, how the prescription will help and the doctor explains to him. It understands the reason behind it. Then it says, great now I know, this can really work and goes all around saying my doctor is great, your doctor is no good, I have checked and he knows his, this is just analyzing the way. Only Vipassana (this course), teaches experiencing the way, that is taking the medicine. This should be on day 3 of the 10 day Vipassana discourse DVD, if one decides to check it out.
ANS) ANY KIND OF SALE IS PROHIBITED. AS A MATTER OF FACT I WAS VERY STRONGLY ADVOCATING BASIC MATERIAL LIKE DISCOURSE,INSTRUCTIONS SHOULD REACH THE NEW STUDENTS TO ATTAIN PROPER PROGRESSAS THE TASK IS LIKE CLIMBING HIMALAYAS.THE ANALOGY VERY WELL FITS TO THE MODERN WORLD GRIPED BY FANATISM ORIGINATED FROM DOCTOR (FOUNDER), MEDICINE (PRECHING), PRESCRIPTION (DOGMA) ETC
-I noticed an irony, the older students respond to Goenka saying, Bhavatu sabba mangalam. (May all beings be happy.) with Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu, though the notice board says it means “We agree.” Being from India and knowing Hindi, I knew different and as the course progressed the irony stuck. Incase some wants to read more, here is a link to a wikipedia article on Sadhus (ascetics) of India.
Comment by krish santhanam — January 15, 2008 @ 9:58 pmANS) IN PALI IT IS NOTHING BUT AGREEMENT/ACKNOWLEDGING.
TO GET THIS INVALUABLE JEM ONE SHOULD BE FORTUNATE TO GET THE SEED OF VIPASANA TO MAKE THE FIRST STEP. OUR MEETA HELP U & OTHER SIMILAR NOTIONED BEINGS TO GET THE SEED IN UR NEXT BIRTH.
The Value of Anapana and Vipassana in Psychological and Psychosomatic Illnesses
Dr. K. S. Ayyar
Goals of Vipassana and Psychiatry
It is important to note that physical and mental well-being are by-products and not the goals of Vipassana meditation. For the diligent meditator, nibbana, the washing away of all mental impurities, is the goal. Self-purification by self-observation is the process by which this washing away occurs, which may sound similar to “working through” in psychoanalysis. Purification means removal of greed, anger and ignorance, which are considered to be mental pollutants. During Vipassana, body and mind experience the reality of impermanence and change (anicca). The sense of self, ego, will be altered and egolessness will prevail. Equanimity is cultivated in all situations.
The goals of modern medicine and psychiatry are modest in comparison. We seek to relieve physical and mental suffering and anguish and return the person to his social and work environment, ideally at his pre-illness level of functioning. Modern medicine is ever open to new techniques of therapeutic value, provided they are adequately researched. Attention may be drawn to the fact that the 1985 issue of the American Journal of Psychiatry carried an article on Vipassana which was given prominence, both on the cover and within the journal, though not much research has been done on the subject. Sarpagandha for hypertension, yoga therapy and Mahesh Yogi’s Transcendental Meditation are examples of Indian therapies finding their way into the textbooks of medicine and psychiatry. Anapana and Vipassana too can be included in the relevant textbooks, after systematic studies on their utility and limitations as therapeutic modalities.
Personal Experience of Vipassana as a Somato-Psychic Therapeutic Modality
The ten day Vipassana course is an initiation into the two techniques of Anapana (breath awareness) and Vipassana (mind-body awareness), and not a therapeutic regime. Medical professionals are concerned with the body, the bodily sensations and the impact of the emotions on the bodily organs. In psychiatry there are several therapies which proceed from the body towards the mind. Deep muscle relaxation by Jacobson’s method, other modified muscle relaxation techniques and biofeedback therapy are classic examples. Behaviour therapy too tackles the body and its actions or responses first and emotions later, or sometimes never. Thus Vipassana has similarities to these therapies, in contrast to the psychotherapies. Psychoanalysis, which begins with the mind and the emotions, pays scant attention directly to the body, but still manages to provide relief from somatic symptoms.
I found that with Anapana (breath awareness), concentration is attained quickly. With my regular experience with deep muscle relaxation and self hypnosis, I might have found it easier than an uninitiated layman.
During the Vipassana course, a state of partial sensory deprivation exists: no TV, no radio, no writing, no reading, no conversations. This absence of stimuli prevents the conscious mind from going into its usual habit patterns of thinking, behaving, and emoting. The circumstances are thus ideal for unconscious repressed feelings to surface and for sensations and events from the past to break into conscious awareness.
With about 110 hours of sustained concentration during a ten day course, there is ample opportunity for the accumulated complexes from the past to express themselves on the body and get eradicated. The partial sensory deprivation is akin to the Freudian couch, where the person under analysis has the same view in front of his eyes and has to maintain a constant position on the couch. The difference is that 100 hours of analysis would take about 4-5 months, and in practice, in psychotherapy, it is difficult to get the Indian patient to follow up for more than 6-10 sessions of about 45 minutes each. Here Vipassana has an advantage. I also observed during meditation that minor physical ailments like nasal stuffiness or eye discomfort disappeared quickly. Sympathetic and para-sympathetic discharges occur spontaneously. Palpitations, sweating, throbbing, tingling, vibrations, abdominal movements and kinaesthetic sensations, appear and disappear. Sensations related to the central nervous system like muscle discomfort, aches, pains and cramps also occur, and persist for varying durations of time. Spontaneous emotional states like fear, panic, anger and sexual arousal can appear and disappear during meditation. Since whatever happens to the body and mind during Vipassana stems mostly from the past, accumulated physical and mental tensions are relieved by this technique.
Clinical Indications for Vipassana Meditation and Research on Vipassana
Vipassana may be used to produce general physical well-being and also general mental well-being. It can relieve minor physical ailments like rhinitis and muscle spasms. It can relieve minor psychological abnormalities like irritability and short-temperedness.
It may prove useful in the treatment of psychosomatic disorders like spondylitis, headache, migraine, peptic ulcer syndrome, colitis, neurodermatitis, psoriasis and eczema, hypertension, diabetes, arthritis etc.
Among psychiatric disorders, anxiety neurosis, depressive neurosis, phobias, addictions and personality problems may be benefited by Vipassana meditation.
The theoretical benefits from Vipassana have been discussed in the American Journal of Psychiatry (Jan 1985). Dr Paul Fleischman, a psychiatrist, has discussed the beneficial effects on both mind and body in his booklet, “The Therapeutic Actions of Vipassana: Why I Sit.” To Dr. Fleischman, every aspect of the training course and the lectures during the course has psychotherapeutic significance and contributes to producing improvement in mind and body functions.
Vipassana has been tried out on prisoners and jail officials in Rajasthan and was found to produce perceptible attitudinal changes. Sinha et al., in an uncontrolled study with poor experimental design, found improved attention span, alertness and mental stability. During the Vipassana Research Institute Seminar in 1986, several individual meditators reported significant improvement in several psychosomatic and stress related syndromes, from cervical spondylosis and essential hypertension, to degenerative diseases like muscular dystrophy. Such self-reports are usually exaggerated, and suffer from a positive bias and what is called the “attribution” or “halo” effect. The symptoms of such effects were seen in the excessive stress on the pristine purity, the antiquity and the Indian origin of the technique and excessive adulation of the teacher. Anecdotal examples, though insufficient proof by themselves, are useful in leading to controlled scientific investigation which will be acceptable to the scientific community at large.
Certain studies, like that of Kabat-Zinn in 1982, definitely prove that Vipassana has a role to play in chronic diseases. It was proved to be of value in relieving chronic pain by reducing the experience of suffering by cognitive reappraisal. The cause of the pain may not disappear, but the attitude to the pain changes and therefore suffering is diminished considerably. Similarly, with neurodermatitis, psoriasis, and eczema; where the patient can learn to ignore the itching sensations, or observe them in a detached way and avoid scratching. Thus he breaks the itch-scratch-itch cycle which in turn helps to heal the lesions.
At the end of the Vipassana Research Institute Seminar three years ago, I was part of a group which prepared guidelines for research on the medical and psychological aspects of Vipassana. Monitoring basic parameters like blood pressure, maintaining case records, regular follow-up records, and bio-chemical and electrophysiological monitoring of sincere meditators were some of the suggestions given. I am told that it may take some time to work out a programme for getting medical and psycho-physiological data on meditators.
Results of Application of Anapana in Psychiatric Patients:
Breath awareness has been used by me over the last two and a half years with neurotic and psychosomatic disorders. I have not conducted any systematic study to compare it scientifically with other psychiatric treatments. But the following observations from my experience with 40 patients may be relevant.
1) Anapana-sati is easy to teach. It can be easily practised in a sitting position.
2) Together with other physical techniques, it provides variety in treatment and keeps the patient from giving up the technique out of boredom. With Jacobson’s relaxation technique, it has been found that most patients stop doing it or become highly irregular in practice after the second month.
3) Anapana is as effective as Jacobson’s technique in producing relaxation and in keeping the mind calm and peaceful.
4) Roughly 80% of patients who were taught and practised Anapana showed good clinical improvement. (Benson’s relaxation response, Woolfolk’s breathing meditation, Carrington’s clinically standardised meditation, autogenic exercises, Finland exercises and biofeedback also decreased arousal during their application, just as occurs with Anapana, and all these techniques yield similar results to Transcendental Meditation in comparable patient groups. Anapana and Vipassana too, when researched, should yield similar observations. T.M., it is worth noting, has been the most widely researched meditation technique, much more than yoga therapy, for example, in psychiatric patients.)
5) Non-specific healing aspects of a Vipassana meditation course:
a) A ten days vacation from daily routines is itself psycho-therapeutic in nature.
b) The enforced silence, temporary isolation and unique calm atmosphere are probably being experienced for the first time in the individual’s life. To the average person it is highly esoteric and other worldly, and their experience of having lived in a different world for ten days has its therapeutic benefits.
c) The average Indian probably cheats in little ways even when observing fasts. So following the rigid code of discipline during Vipassana, with total control over one’s eating habits, speech and sleep, from 4 a.m. to 9.30 p.m. each day, gives a sense of mastery over oneself. The very idea that one was able to go through this apparently strenuous self-discipline lightens the mood, produces a sense of euphoria and has definite therapeutic potential.
d) The effects will depend upon the amount of praise heaped upon the technique by the person recommending it. Vipassana, like other therapies with esoteric and mystical qualities, such as hypnosis, may have great placebo effect.
e) The charismatic influence of Mr. S. N. Goenka will produce favourable results, though he takes great pains to avoid a cult relationship.
f) Hope means expectation of success. The teacher looks very confident. The patient is assured of relief because of this. Thus the placebo effect is activated.
g) Trust: the teacher appears to be a sincere, honest, trustworthy, genuine and authentic person. These qualities themselves are capable of improving the patient by activating the placebo effect.
h) Faith: During the lectures, Goenkaji’s sensitivity to human problems, empathic understanding, skill, wisdom and positivity and assuredness are communicated to the meditator, and this engenders faith. And this faith by itself, through a placebo effect, is capable of producing improvement.
Goenkaji himself wants the improvements to occur by the technique alone. But all the above factors help to undo anxiety. The disruptive physiological effects of anxiety are brought under control. So energies are now conserved and diverted to dealing more effectively with existing problems and situations.
6) Resistance to Vipassana meditation among patients.
The psychiatrist Dr Paul Fleischman finds a therapeutic benefit in all aspects of Vipassana, but states in his book that he would not recommend it to patients unless they inquire about it. He cites professional and cultural reasons for this.
Certain phobic and anxious patients resist being diverted to another helping agency because their dependent relationship with the psychiatrist is then dissolved. A few patients I had directed to Goenkaji’s recent lecture at Malad were not interested in what they saw as Buddhist techniques. The present communally charged atmosphere and the problem of prejudices sometimes prevent individuals from accepting something highly beneficial.
Sometimes patients have unrealistic expectations; for example a doctor from Borivili said that in ten days only two techniques were taught. She probably expected a new technique every day. Similarly a Bombay consultant was unable to accept the ideology and the explanations and was thus put off from practising the technique after completing the course.
Though Vipassana is universal in its application, it may not suit all patients, even if they belong to one of the clinical categories where it can be helpful. Similarly, through no fault of the technique or its teaching, some patients will not be able to benefit from it because of their individual developmental experiences and mental make-up. A scientific study of the people who drop out of courses would thus be useful to clarify the characteristics of the individuals who benefit from Vipassana.
Comment by wellwisher — February 19, 2008 @ 4:13 pmDear Amit,
I recently sat my first 10-day course, and I think the course is different for every individual.
When the one-hour sits without moving your body started, my inner over-achiever took over, and I decided that I’d sit still for 2 hours, thinking this would surely benefit me more than one hour…
I already had some severe pain, but this bizarre idea put me through some horribly excrusiating pain, the same that you describe. Since I couldn’t scream in the meditation hall, I just silently let the tears flow (but certainly didn’t move!). This made the pain fluctuate: it would disappear with my tears and then come back in the next sit again, but with every meditation loosing some of its power. And by the end of the course it was pretty much gone.
Now after 2 months as I have a little more experience of sitting, I have realized that I should not have been so strict with myself. Goenka says that during the “hour of determination”, you CAN move if it becomes neccessary. Well, I realized that if I hurt like hell, it is neccessary to move! I cannot even practice in such pain, so there is no point in doing so. (Most people don’t experience such horrific pain as I did, so it was fine for them to stay still.)
This realization was really helpful to me: I just happen to be an ambitious & consciencious person, so I have to give myself some slack. Some other people might be less determined, and they are the ones who should try to sit still a little longer. We are all different.
Based on my experience, I am sure you could find your own way of practicing, something that suits your personality.
Wishing you all the best in your path of spirituality,
Comment by Johanna — March 17, 2008 @ 1:09 amJohanna.
Hi Amit,
MAY ALL BEINGS BE IN PEACE AND HARMONY.
I would like to share my experiece when I attended 10 days Vipassana course.
I went along with group of my friends, who have just given college exams.
At the 3rd day, I went through lots of unpleasant experiences. Physically, my
legs,back was aching, mentally missing all my family members,family get togethers
I even tried to go away, making lots of excuses saying
my health was not good at all. Initally, I got this thought, WHAT I AM DOING
HERE?? But I am really glad that I completed the course and at the 10th day, I
felt I was happy to complete the course.
Everything is ANITHYA(impermanent) in this world, things keep changing every
second. The main focus of the discussion what I see is “PAIN”, even
that too is impermanent. I experieced combination of PHYSICAL PAIN,SORROW,
UNHAPINESS, LONLINESS , but at the same time
I was experiecing VERY PLESANT SENSATIONS AND FELT LIKE I WANNA EXPERIECE THIS
FEELING MORE. But we, need to be unanimous towards all positive and negative
sensations as the Goenkiji keeps on saying about it.
Slowly, when we relealize this,we have more control of our
mind(how it thinks, reacts).
I SUGGEST YOU GIVE IT ANOTHER TRY, Im sure you will change your views.
You can even trying ANNAPANNA before sleeping, for sure you wont experience
any back ache pains, but your sub conscious mind will be awake doing its job.
As I experieced HAPPINESS within, I hope that you too experiece the same
HAPINESS.
– Manav…
Comment by Manav — March 28, 2008 @ 11:43 amI completed the 10 day course in Singapore in Dec 2007.
It was the most painful and most rewarding experience of my entire life.
You do need to complete 10 days fully to be able to judge the technique. 4 days is really inadequate.
I had severe back ache due to my lumbargo (curved spine), and severe knee pain (4 knee operations to reconstruct my ACL and remove my meniscus). Needless to say, I was flabbergasted when the teacher (i) told me that “its all in the mind”, and (ii) refused to let me meditate by sitting on a chair. He also told me “you can meditate in comfort, or you can meditate in pain. Which will you choose? If you meditate in comfort, you will sleep or daydream; if you meditate with pain, your meditation will be stronger.”
I will never forget those words for the rest of my life. Only on the 10th day did I realise that they were true.
Why is meditation stronger with pain? Its because your mind oscillates between pain and meditation. Whereas if you meditate in comfort, you mind can oscillate with ANYTHING. You have many more distractions and “enemies” if you meditate in comfort. In a sense, the pain helps you focus better.
Much of the pain is not caused by physical strain. Instead, the intensive meditation causes you to become more sensitive. I found that the deeper the meditation, the greater the pain - but up to a certain point only. Beyond a certain point, the pain “breaks up” and disappears. Then other aspects of pain arise elsewhere. At this juncture, you no longer feel intimidated. I reached this stage around the 8th day.
For me, the 2nd day was my most difficult day. The 6th day was also very difficult. But beyond that, it was very rewarding.
Please do not allow yourself to be CONSUMED by pain. If you keep harping on it during meditation, you let the pain engulf you. Then it breaks your concentration. Observe the pain for what it is, and do not react. Once you conquer it, you will appreciate the technique much better.
I wish you all the very best.
Metta
Comment by yip weng — April 12, 2008 @ 9:47 amWeng
Hello Amit,
I stayed at a vipassana retreat for 8 days, after which they sent me home for questioning their beliefs. As Andrew says the teachers are buttonpushers and full of cliches, it truely is the cult of Goenka. But what ultimately proved to me it was a cult was that they decided to send me away (and had two people escort me, that were guarding me all the time, from packing my bags and all the way to the bus station) because i had questions about the teachings and they couldn’t give me any proper answers, so they said i had proven not to follow the rules (altough i truly had into the last detail)and not to be “recptive” and disturbing others with my negativity (altought i dindn’t utter a word to anyone or make eyecontact or anything of that sort) They meant that they could “see” things at a “higher level” wich i couldnt understand, but i have lived in buddhist temples and met people far along on the path, both monks and laymen, and those teachers surely didnt seem enlightened to me, more like brainwashed ,unintelligent, unquestioning string-puppets, that totally lost all their so-called “equanimity” (wich Goenka preaches and preaches)that they actually yelled at me when confronted with questions that might have proved faults in the teachings if answered, pointing out that during the ten days i was to be “under their total submission” (sic!). Goenka probably is/was someone who had quite some knowledge, and perhaps the teqhnique would work if in a dynamic setting with knowledgeable teachers, BUT the whole system of vipassana retreats is NOT working as a dynamic teaching,it is a following after instructions from a cd where some guy rants and rants instructions for a technique, it is only for brainwashed feebleminded sheep.
Isabella
Comment by Isabella — May 23, 2008 @ 2:40 amIsabella,
I shared your surprise at the sudden mistrust. It made the attendees change the role from welcoming, open to all, peace loving, buddhists to people who are quite paranoid and untrusting.
That is life. The quality of people there varies as much as it does of people we meet outside, we just expect different.
Regards
Comment by Amit D. Chaudhary — May 23, 2008 @ 11:15 amAmit
Hi, Amit. I think it is brave of you to share your experience, especially when it could feel a bit embarrassing.
I know this because I “escaped” at the end of Day 4 on my first Goenka retreat. My back was killing me, I was lonely, I thought Goenkaji’s voice was too weird, etc.
But six months later I tried again, having not brought a car or anything that might allow me to leave early. It was tough, but I got through the 10 days, and the effects were ASTOUNDING.
However, six months after that, I went for another course, driving my car to the center. I was too cocky — I went just two days and then ran away without even telling the assistant teacher, which was rude, not to mention ungrateful.
Two and a half years went by before I got over my shame and went to another course. This time, it went very easily (although not without pain, of course)and it was a thoroughly cleansing and healing experience; I sat in a chair for part of the course because of back pain.
A year after that, I went on my most recent course; my wife even came along! She suffers from rheumatoid arthritis, and was allowed to sit in a chair. She thought it was a very valuable experience, but has not gone on another course yet. I asked the assistant teacher if I could sit in a chair because of back pain, and he said that I could if I needed to, but added, “You know, this meditation isn’t about avoiding pain.” This just opened up an entire new world of meditation for me — I observed the pain and was equanimous about it. It was an amazing paradigm shift.
But you have to go for the full 10 days of a course. As Goenkaji says, you shouldn’t try to hop up from an operating table halfway through surgery, and neither should you try to leave this “mental operation” before the surgeon is finished!
So my score is Finished Courses: 3, Unfinished: 2. I plan to go to another at the end of this month to try to get my average up.
Much metta,
Comment by Sean Hoade — June 8, 2008 @ 3:46 pmSean Hoade
Dear Sean,
Thanks for your note. I and I am sure others would be interested in the ASTOUNDING effects you mention.
It did remind me that someday I should write my emotional and other experience during Vipasana. Somebody else also pointed it out,
http://warriorvsmonkey.blogspot.com/2007/11/going-to-vipassana-course.html
http://warriorvsmonkey.blogspot.com/2008/02/comments-on-my-vipassana-retreat.html
I found the analogy of surgery or comment on “meditation isn’t about avoiding pain.” unconvincing. Though people do things which can be painful and enjoy it, thinking of extreme sports. My inclination is to neither avoid pain or seek it and sitting for 10 hours a day is seeking it, but I do see the benefits too.
Regards
Comment by Amit D. Chaudhary — June 9, 2008 @ 6:29 pmAmit